DIY(!) Car Audio with nonstandard drivers?

[undefined.za]

Hi everyone,

I have been wondering (purely speculative) if it would be possible to use 'standard' drivers in a car audio installation.

Something like the DLS RS6N splits cost R2200.00 (!) and they are middle of the range.

Are there any reasons why someone could not use high quality 'non-car-audio' drivers in a completely DIY setup.

Something like the Visaton G20SC Textile Dome tweeter (http://www.pqsound.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17_115_117&products_id=832) with the baffle removed, paired with Visaton W 170 S 8ohm 6.5" Woofer (http://www.pqsound.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17_115_116&products_id=829).

This would come to less than 2.2k including a DIY passive crossover.

Visaton make very good drivers, so I'm wondering if something like this would be possible. I am aware that these drivers are 8ohms, but that shouldn't be a problem (right?).

Regards,
Chris

[Batman]

The car environment tends to get alot hotter than in a building so drivers don't last long and cars impedance from amps and speakers vary from 4 to 2 to 1 Ohm or less. The one's we use are around 8 ohm most commonly. But then again Gary Biggs was using studio equalizers to simulate time correction in his car.

[tangmonster]

make sure to use the 4ohm versions of the visaton drivers for a bit more volume.

[Batman]

Don't forget AV audio drivers have the room space to accomodate larger boxes whereas in a car this is severely limited so cones have better suspension to get smaller chamber s for them to play in.

[undefined.za]

Don't forget AV audio drivers have the room space to accomodate larger boxes whereas in a car this is severely limited so cones have better suspension to get smaller chamber s for them to play in.

Fair enough, but I think that a very large proportion of the cost on Car Audio drivers and kits is for the 'car audio' sticker. Visaton make good drivers which arguably have the specs to compete with car drivers.

As for the 8 ohm impedance of the drivers - this won't be a problem at all. An amp rated with a minimum impedance of lower than 8 ohms will always be able to drive 8 ohm rated drivers albeit at a lower output level.

One thing no one has mentioned is sound dispersion which is supposedly optimized in car (midbass) drivers so that more sound is radiated parallel to the driver (pun intended).

[Noizyboy]

for sure you can use them, we sell heaps of one particular Infinity Dynamic Tweeter to the TAXI installers and it is silk dome 8ohm unit. Why do they use it ?? because it actually sounds real nice and only cost 50bucks

[undefined.za]

for sure you can use them, we sell heaps of one particular Infinity Dynamic Tweeter to the TAXI installers and it is silk dome 8ohm unit. Why do they use it ?? because it actually sounds real nice and only cost 50bucks

Not to detract from the (potential) performance of this tweeter, but I have not heard a single TAXI that did not sound absolutely f*cking terrible!

What say you Noizyboy? Would you think its worth giving it a try?

[Batman]

Fair enough, but I think that a very large proportion of the cost on Car Audio drivers and kits is for the 'car audio' sticker. Visaton make good drivers which arguably have the specs to compete with car drivers.

As for the 8 ohm impedance of the drivers - this won't be a problem at all. An amp rated with a minimum impedance of lower than 8 ohms will always be able to drive 8 ohm rated drivers albeit at a lower output level.

One thing no one has mentioned is sound dispersion which is supposedly optimized in car (midbass) drivers so that more sound is radiated parallel to the driver (pun intended).

8 ohm on a 4 ohm amp will work but you're looking at running half the power from the amp available at 4 ohm i.e. 50w rms @ 4 ohm to 25w rms @ 8 ohm. Benefit though you may experience is amp sunning cooler and maybe better dampening on the speaker by the amp.

[Noizyboy]

ya agree with you on that TAXI,s only have 2 frequencies  BASSSSSSSSS & Top  . Anway that aside it is definately possible to use normal HiFi drivers for car use as we have sold to many car guys in the past. obviously the trick is in making the correct type of boxes to suit.

[Timber_MG]

Nothing like using higher efficiency drivers to make up for the higher impedance. Tweeters in a car are a bit of an issue as you want to cross lower than usual due to the larger distance between drivers. The Split systems take an average installation scenario and spin a crossover around that. DIY allows you tailor the crossover the the installation. Some forum members have built some systems that sound very listenable and let me appreciate car SQ much more than some of the generic installs I had heard before.

[frikkie]

Teh forrim ate my reply...

Let's try again. In the early 90's I built a car system into a Mk1 Golf using the drivers and crossovers from a pair Celestion Ditton something or other bookshelfs. Tweeter and mid-bass mounted in the (strengthened) door panels of the fron t doors, with some vibration damping on the insides of the doors, with as much as possible opening sealed as I could muster.

This was augmented with a 12" JL Audio woofer (not so much a sub) mounted in a free-air baffle behind the back seat. All driven off a 50wx4 Majestic amp - 2 channels front left & right, 2 channels bridged to the woofer. The doors ran full-range and the woofer through the amp's built-in low pass at around 100Hz IIRC.

It sounded wonderful, even without the woofer. The woofer added wonderful open, airy and powerful bass that the mid-basses could simply not do in that location.

The downfall of the system was the fact that the Celestion drivers were installed flat into the Golf's doors, so stereo soundstage was non-existent. Stereo image consisted of hard-left, hard-right and center! This could have been vastly improved by building custom pods in the footwells or some such, but I never got that far - the car was sold before any of that could happen - with the hybrid sound in place. The new owner loved the system, so I asked some extra $$$ for the install.

Moral of the story - yes, domestic audio drivers can sound great in a car. And they tend to be far cheaper than dedicated car audio units...
 

[Shonver]

Are there any reasons why someone could not use high quality 'non-car-audio' drivers in a completely DIY setup.

No reason at all. This is in fact exactly what I am planning for myself.

Moral of the story - yes, domestic audio drivers can sound great in a car. And they tend to be far cheaper than dedicated car audio units...

Hehe... Really, car audiophiles are getting ripped off, I tell you. The equivalent home audio drivers from the same manufacturer are much cheaper. One factor, though, that one should not overlook: most home audio drivers we (DIYers) import ourselves, whereas car audio drivers have a local distribution chain; this might be adding to the cost.

One thing no one has mentioned is sound dispersion which is supposedly optimized in car (midbass) drivers so that more sound is radiated parallel to the driver (pun intended).

I have not seen any evidence of this. The drivers look exactly the same as home audio drivers, apart from some cosmetics.

[undefined.za]

Great, thanks for the response gents.

My Toyota has great stock sound - I was very impressed.

It came with splits with very subtle tweeter pods in the doors - and I love the fact that it is all stock, so nothing looks out of place.

I was contemplating upgrading the sound, but then started wondering why the car audio kits were so expensive...

My only concern is removing the 'waveguide'/'baffle' (not sure what the correct term is) of the tweeter so that it fits into the small tweeter pod. Can anyone comment?

[Batman]

Great, thanks for the response gents.

My Toyota has great stock sound - I was very impressed.

It came with splits with very subtle tweeter pods in the doors - and I love the fact that it is all stock, so nothing looks out of place.

I was contemplating upgrading the sound, but then started wondering why the car audio kits were so expensive...

My only concern is removing the 'waveguide'/'baffle' (not sure what the correct term is) of the tweeter so that it fits into the small tweeter pod. Can anyone comment?

Its probably just a protective grill and not a waveguide so you can just take it of and place it in..

[undefined.za]

Next up: Car amplifiers...

I also think that these are terribly overpriced, but there are certainly some complications in car audio that are otherwise not an issue in home audio.

Linear PSUs have to take 12vdc, push it up, convert back to dc... SMPS are cheaper and easier...

I suppose the entire design rationale changes as a completely different set of circumstances faces car amp designers.

Are DIY car audio amps a good idea? Has anyone given this a bash?