Help with a decent balanced headphone & DAC system

[Wolvebain]

Greetings... 

I'm new to these forums, but hope I can enlist your help with a decent headphone set-up, for my PC.

I'm looking at getting the Sennheiser HD 650 headphone set, and running it on my old Sony AV Receiver for the time-being [has optical-in & supports 48hHz sample rate]

I do have some limitation on my PC, however.  I don't have space for an add-on sound card, and I use both Linux & Windows operating systems, so USB DAC's seem to be out due to driver compatibility [?]

I'm planning on getting something like the Xonar Essence One later, to drive these headphones, as it has optical S/PDIF input & balanced XLR outputs.


Any suggestions & feedback would be greatly appreciated!

[chipwelder]

I have gone from music on the computer to a dap (sansa clip+) and Free lossless audio compression (FLAC) and will add a headphone amp, just because I use the processor for heavy lifting... so got lots of clicks and pops... The senn 650's need a good amp and the sony will in all likelihood be fairly mediocre for this.
Can't say the clip+ beats my audio interface at the moment... but we'll see how it goes with and hp amp.

[Rodney_gold]

If you want to get the 650's , then you really need at least a  dedicated headphone amp  and possibly a good DAC. I would suggest you got the Logitech Squeezebox route as a digital front end.
A good dac will cost you R5-10k , a decent headphone amp R5-10k. Lots of ppl also rave about aftermarket cables for em.

Im using the Emotiva X-da1 DAC and after trying a zillion headphone amps have settled on a Burson and a Graham slee solo.. I have tried many valve and valve hybrids but prefer solid state with my HD 800's , but valve does work well on the 650's. they really sang with my Woo Audia Wa2
Currently I am listening to a PS audio digital link dac that sounds very good for the money. (round R9k)

[Wolvebain]

Thanks for the input guys; much appreciated!


@chipwelder: My PC's `heavy-lifting` shouldn't interfere with music playback, as my PC is on the strong side.  Also using FLAC, but it's a long & steady road until all my non FLAC music files are replaced.

@Rodney_gold: As mentioned, I'm planning to get an Asus Xonar Essence One [ http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_Essence_One/ ]  as soon as they become available in SA.  According to it's product page, it can drive up to 600 ohms impedance headphones.  The Sennheiser HD 650 are 300 ohms impedance, so in theory, it should work well [no? not powerful enuff?]

[chipwelder]

Ja, ArcGIS eats a lot and mine is older... Well I doubt you'll get all the benefit from the 650's from using the asus as the everything... The good dedicated headphone amps use much better psu's than anything you can find in a computer, and that is probably the major limiting factor in any amp... and the inside of a computer is electrically noisy, so i prefer having the D2A and small signal stuff on the outside... Once you are up at the level of the 650s most things make a diffs... Not to say you can't get good sound from the asus, but there is probably more available.

[kamikazi]

That PS Audio Link III and a headphone amp sounds like a pretty good combination. Otherwise you could look at the Nuforce Icon HDP which was designed with the HD650 in mind and has a high quality, rumoured to be ESS DAC, too so should offer very good performance.

[Gnarls]

Ja, ArcGIS eats a lot and mine is older... Well I doubt you'll get all the benefit from the 650's from using the asus as the everything... The good dedicated headphone amps use much better psu's than anything you can find in a computer, and that is probably the major limiting factor in any amp... and the inside of a computer is electrically noisy, so i prefer having the D2A and small signal stuff on the outside... Once you are up at the level of the 650s most things make a diffs... Not to say you can't get good sound from the asus, but there is probably more available.

The essence one is an external usb dac/headphone amp and from what I've been reading it punches well above its weight.



I've been meaning to get a discussion going about it but I'm still waiting for a proper review. As stated previously, I've read that it's very good and if my STX is anything to go by, it could be another great bang for buck product.

Cheers

[Byrd]

Just looking at the specs of the Asus that were linked to, with 7 Volts it SEEMS it will be able to drive the HD650's however that is with the proviso that there is enough current delivery. My best guess is that there would be.

The other thing to consider is that the output of the headphone on this product is not balanced, it is single ended. If you wanted to use the earphones in balanced mode you are going to have to modify your cable for the HD650's and most likely going to have to get a separate balanced preamp as well.

[Wolvebain]

Thanks for input guys;  greatly appreciated!

Ja, ArcGIS eats a lot and mine is older... Well I doubt you'll get all the benefit from the 650's from using the asus as the everything... The good dedicated headphone amps use much better psu's than anything you can find in a computer, and that is probably the major limiting factor in any amp... and the inside of a computer is electrically noisy, so i prefer having the D2A and small signal stuff on the outside... Once you are up at the level of the 650s most things make a diffs... Not to say you can't get good sound from the asus, but there is probably more available.

I hear your concerns.  I'm currently running a Coolermaster Silent Pro Gold 1.2kW, single 12v rail PSU [max output capacity = 1440W].  And tho my systems max power consumption is approx. 1057W, the PSU should be able to handle it without strain.  Besides, I'm not powering the Asus Xonar Essence One from my PC; it has it's own dedicated internal power supply that `supports all international voltages and has generous margins for over and under voltage conditions. It provides the cleanest power for the cleanest sound with excellent immunity to noise on the AC line.`

The PC will be connected to the Asus Xonar Essence One via optical TosLink cable, to eliminate any possible carrier noise;  The PC would only need to produce a clean digital signal [which it should do easily, from a power consumption & processing perspective]

So, that should be fine, right?

The essence one is an external usb dac/headphone amp and from what I've been reading it punches well above its weight.

I've been meaning to get a discussion going about it but I'm still waiting for a proper review. As stated previously, I've read that it's very good and if my STX is anything to go by, it could be another great bang for buck product.

Cheers

The `proper review`, + ETA & local pricing is a mystery....   I too am eagerly waiting for these.
   

That PS Audio Link III and a headphone amp sounds like a pretty good combination. Otherwise you could look at the Nuforce Icon HDP which was designed with the HD650 in mind and has a high quality, rumoured to be ESS DAC, too so should offer very good performance.

Thanks for the suggestion... I do see that the Nuforce Icon HDP also has optical digital inputs!

Just looking at the specs of the Asus that were linked to, with 7 Volts it SEEMS it will be able to drive the HD650's however that is with the proviso that there is enough current delivery. My best guess is that there would be.

The other thing to consider is that the output of the headphone on this product is not balanced, it is single ended. If you wanted to use the earphones in balanced mode you are going to have to modify your cable for the HD650's and most likely going to have to get a separate balanced preamp as well.

From what I can get from the Asus Xonar Essence One's product-page, headphones Vrms= 7 & ohms = 600, we can derive that the headphones are pushing out about 81.667 mW @ about 0.01167 amps... So it should be able to drive the HD 650's easily [right?]

I hear you on the headphone output being unbalanced.  I know the Asus Xonar Essence One has balanced XLR outputs, but no review or indications that it can be used to drive a 300 ohm set of headphones --tho, the product-page states the XLR output's Vrms= 4, and if we make a big-ass assumption that has the same/similar amps as the headphones [0.01167] then it should drive up to 342.857 ohms headphones...

[xenithon]

You can kill 2 birds (actually 3 or 4) with one stone with something like the Benchmark DAC or Apogee MiniDAC. I used both for a while with the HD650's. What that will give you is
- a fully balanced DAC
- USB input with very low to no jitter
- a very good headphone amplifier with a cool and crisp sonic signature which matches the warmth of the HD650's (Benchmark)...the Apogee also suited the HD650's beautifully if you want a slightly warmer and softer but still very detailed sound.
- an additional advantage....there are some balanced DAC's where you can run the HD650s straight out of the XLR outputs....Benchmark and Apogee being 2 of them. This means your HD650's would run in fully balanced mode and that makes a world of difference. You would need to get a special set of aftermarket cables made but that's an additional step up two as you can replace the horrid stock cable.

Cheers

[BigWoodenSpoon]

Im using the Emotiva X-da1 DAC

Wolvebane, buy Gert's, its up for sale in classifieds

[Wolvebain]

@xenithon: Excellent info bud; Greatly appreciated!!! Both the Benchmark DAC or Apogee Mini-DAC have optical-in, so they would definitely do the job.  I'll see if I can get some pricing & stock availability/ETA during this week.  What are your thought's on the Asus Xonar Essence One?  I'm keen on getting that instead, but depending on stock/ETA & what you guys suggest, I may go for a Benchmark DAC or Apogee Mini-DAC.

@BigWoodenSpoon: Thanks for the heads-up on the Emotiva X-da1 DAC.  But isn't Rodney_gold using it purely as a DAC/Pre-amp, and I would still need an additional headphone amp?  If so, I'd prefer an DAC/Amp combo for a permanent solution, as I don't have much free space [my 4x 24" LCD's are already eating enuff space, still going to add an additional 2x more]

[Hi-Phibian]

Wait until CES is done. For one Bel Canto will be releasing an asynchronous dac / can  box that already has lots of folks talking.

Afaik Ndiri may have a Benchmark for sale.

I can assist with aftermarket upgrade cables from Cardas. They have just released the new Clear Headphone e cable above their std headphone cable range. As the 650 is a split L R Y cable not single entry one can temporarily for eg change the stock cable to XLR too.

[Rodney_gold]

I tried a benchmark DAC with my headphones , i switched it off after a few minutes listening to it , it was awful as a headphone amp and dac , It wasnt the latest model. It was hard and harsh sounding , I think it was the Dac1 without remote control.
Gerts emotiva is gone.
My fave headphone amps right now are a Graham slee solo and a Burson hd800/emotiva/burson
Maybe a good all in one solution with some serious added utility is the KrK Ergo.
have a look here...
http://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,7685.msg90997.html#msg90997

[BigWoodenSpoon]

.
My fave headphone amps right now are a Graham slee solo and a Burson

There's a nice DIY kit of that amp on their site, exact same amp just different components