Author Topic: I hope this is not the start of something..........  (Read 599 times)

Tom

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2011, 10:13:33 am »
I must hear what all the fuss is about

Do yourself a favor AM

Go visit fdlsys  ;)

T
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mahleu

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2011, 11:22:17 am »
Tom, it's a Disco Antistat. Manual cleaner, hoping it makes a difference. Got so many good records in bad condition.
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fdlsys

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2011, 01:36:42 am »
Do yourself a favor AM
Go visit fdlsys  ;)
T
Waaahaaaa  ;D ;D ;D He has! Tough nut to crack though... He speaks binary... :o
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Tom

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2011, 07:37:15 pm »
Waaahaaaa  ;D ;D ;D He has! Tough nut to crack though... He speaks binary... :o

Oh no, and not even the good coffee worked -  ???
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audiomuze

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2011, 08:33:33 pm »
I'm open to persuasion re vinyl, though I've yet to have anyone seriously attempt persuasion.
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u235

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2012, 10:14:37 pm »
I been thinking.

My 25-year old son ( who is an excellent guitarist and a creative soul) has been composing stuff on Ableton lately. I've been learning. Firstly: He has a pair of PreSonus HD7s as his monitoring phones and they are brilliant. I've had a bunch of Sennheisers and these are VERY like my originals - very true and very flat.

Second: I have had an insight deposited on me like a bird-turd regarding transient elements in sound. In the absence of any facts whatsoever, here is the hypothesis.

1) Any wave front (and I have looked at a few) has a host of transient fragments and artifacts around it. Even a sine-wave generated by a machine will, by the time it hits your ear, have a variety of other bits and pieces on it. By virtue of the elastic medium (air), the environment it is in (furniture, ear-lobes) and the physics of signal decay, it is not a pure compression wave.
2) These complex bits and pieces get collected by your external ear, the meat hanging off your face, the bones in your head and so on, and funneled down through malleus incus and stapes to your auditory receptors in all their modified complexity. Just think of the way your voice sounds as you speak, or sounds when you hear a recording of yourself  - completely different.
3) A microphone on the other hand collects sound comparatively cleanly. I've seen a microphone collect a sine wave as a sine wave.
4) so when you have a clean recording, properly positioned and all, and the result digitized, what you have sounds clinical. Those complexities and subtle transients are not there.
5)Back to the kid and his recordings. He has shown me that when for example a kick needs to be used in a piece, just the plain form sounds terrible. What they do is overlay a number of takes of a kick to give it more richness and texture. So even though the overall form is very similar, when you look at the magnified form there are a number of threads overlaying and intertwining with each other to provide the fullness that your ear would normally hear from a live kick-drum. If anyone is interested I have a sample of this in a .png. there are also timing differences attached to the various harmonics dues to their decay characteristics in (amongst others) human tissue.

So what has this to do with vinyl and valves?

The hypothesis is that the inaccurate needle and valves introduce their own transients and inaudible artifacts into the wave, which gives the music warmth and character.

Obviously the purists will say that this is distortion (which is true) but who listens to a pure sine-wave anyway?

What we are getting is a version of the subtle character that the music may have had in the first place.

Just go and listen to a live piano, followed by a digital recording, followed by an analogue recording.

References and bibliography available on request.
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fdlsys

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2012, 11:40:04 pm »
Uuuuh, we didn't have a can of worms of this size opened lately... or ever!
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Atjan

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2012, 12:13:51 am »
While not planning on over-turning the can:

If the microphone records accurately, as stated and provided the recording is true to what the mic picked up, and a 'true to original' signal could be reproduced (for argument's sake), you still have your flesh and bones affecting the sound before it hits your brain. In which case I don't see why it would sound different from the real thing. Sure, we like a bit of 'nice' distortion from old school hifi, but I don't see how that makes it sound more real than an accurately recorded and reproduced sound would be. My guess is that theres something else gone wrong in the recording process that gets smoothed over by the tube distortion.
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u235

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2012, 08:08:36 am »
Good point - the meat is interfering either way.
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audiomuze

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2012, 08:27:40 am »
Just go and listen to a live piano, followed by a digital recording, followed by an analogue recording.
By digital vs analogue recording are you referring to the playback medium, or the method of recording the original performance?
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u235

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2012, 02:48:57 pm »
Playback.

Just to be clear, this theory is that all the inaccurate little bits that analogue playback introduces make for a more complex and appealing sound for some people.

A few weeks from ago Ian commented that he loved the valve sound but his main need was to voice speakers, and he couldn't use it for that. That, plus my son's dubstep composing started this train of thought.

I haven't heard Evensong for Ash Wednesday from CD so I can't compare.
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JimGore

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2012, 04:56:31 pm »
Quote
A few weeks from ago Ian commented that he loved the valve sound

Just to be clear:  I loved the sound from one specific valve setup by Quicksilver Audio.  I am not a lover of all things that contain a valve  ;)

Ian.

Kent Kassler.

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2012, 05:12:37 pm »
One thing i can say for sure is that most of the chaps that i know who run valve amps are generally content with the qualities they offer,most have owned them for years and most of them just giggle at the rate of regular "upgrades" that the solidstate brigade put themselves through...besides as humans we change for the sake of change and this notion of "substantial improvement"  is merely a perceived reality brought on by a shiny new look and nothing more! ;)

Kent Kassler.

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Re: I hope this is not the start of something..........
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2012, 05:14:59 pm »
The Best System You Ever Owned was in your past......it wont happen in your future ;D