Author Topic: 90WATT VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER WITH EL34 + ECC83 + ECC82  (Read 479 times)

laylow45

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90WATT VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER WITH EL34 + ECC83 + ECC82
« on: December 14, 2011, 10:10:58 am »
Hi Forum  :)

Has anybody perhaps seen the attached circuit and perhaps have some more information on it? It's floating around on the web but no further info, such as Power supply circuit etc.
I am contemplating building it, but need more info...
http://electronic-diy-projects.blogspot.com/2009/09/90watt-valve-power-amplifier-with-el34_4198.html

Also, anybody know any good Power transformer (for Valve amps) manufacturers (to spec) in Gauteng or SA?

Thanks ppl ;D
Jo

Timber_MG

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Re: 90WATT VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER WITH EL34 + ECC83 + ECC82
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2011, 10:28:04 am »
Perhaps have a look at the Hammond transformers that Mr. Valve sells or contact Ampdog or Mars on the forum about having these wound.

I am currently building a CNC coil winder becasue the transformer winding companies don't seem to be able to wind these things any longer. Ampdog is building some huge output iron around that power rating.

Mars has been discussing OPT winding in great detail lately and it is an interresting topic to watch, though I'd leave it up to the experienced OPT guys to make the design trade-offs.

J.S.

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Re: 90WATT VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER WITH EL34 + ECC83 + ECC82
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2011, 10:49:26 am »
Best person to ask would be AMPDOG. He is a very well respected menber on the forum and a valve expert.

The first watt is the most important, but it does not mean I cannot have 99 other great watts.

Ampdog

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Re: 90WATT VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER WITH EL34 + ECC83 + ECC82
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 06:45:15 am »
Dear friend Laylow,

My first impression was a light-hearted one: Has this designer won a box-full of 22nF capacitors somewhere - because everything is 22nF!

But you would want a more serious pronouncement. The nicest thing I can say about this design is that it is an admirable example of fitting everything in so that it ju-u-u-st struggles up to its expectations (as in an exam design). But as a comfortable 90W valve design, also coping with normal mains variations and component spreads etc, this is not the topology that I would prefer, and many others would agree with me. Too many things barely fit in. (Are there distortion figures available somewhere? My PC would not open the reference given by you; I only have the schematic appearing above.)

Omitting elucidation with actual arithmetic for now, the ECC83 is a poor choice for both an input stage as well as the concertina phase splitter. Both triodes just about make it, with uncomfortable distortion possibilities at maxima. The grid resistance for two EL34s (about 350K.ohms for fixed bias) is on the maximum spec of 700K per valve ... and so forth.

.... implying that there is altogether a better topology for this sort of thing. It will need an extra valve (not just one slaving away for all main amplifier driving tasks). That then opens a selection of possibilities. Just one - since Leak amplifiers have been discussed in another thread - would be his topology of an input pentode followed by a LTP (long-tailed pair or Schmitt) phase inverter. The Williamson topology offers another far better option.

To conclude for now then, in my opinion not this circuit if you desire a reliable output of close on 100W. Power saving 4 x 6L6GCs will be comfortably higher rated than 4 x EL34 at about the same cost, plus ... but as said. Other suggestions might come along of a different valve or component value for this or that stage; just remember that power amplifier design is hardly ever so straightforward as to just use a different valvecomponent here and there Q.E.D. It needs to be designed as a whole.

Thus for now I am sadly leaving you without a viable 'alternative-in-ten-easy-steps'. Other options from the internet can be examined. For myself I can test-hookup something of such a nature (I have such basic facilities), but I would need a week or two, present schedule being what it is.

But there are other knowledgable members here ...
'Miracles' are not contrary to Nature - they are only contrary to our understanding of Nature

laylow45

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Re: 90WATT VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER WITH EL34 + ECC83 + ECC82
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 04:02:01 am »
Hi Ampdog and other and thanks for the feedback...

All noted on your dissection of the circuit, and yes there are probably better options out there... :-\

I am still searching.  The circuit in question does not have any other information available (as far as I can see) and that is disconcerting.  It seems the biggest challenge will be to obtain power and output transformers of a suitable rating. (MR Valve's Hammond is output transformers only) If anybody has a complete diagram of any other 50 -100W Valve amplifier design, that is construct-able, it would be highly appreciated, perhaps with as much other information with it, as is possible.

Thanks guys.  :)
Johan

Mars

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Re: 90WATT VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER WITH EL34 + ECC83 + ECC82
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 11:17:57 pm »
This is a nice circuit to build



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fdlsys

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Re: 90WATT VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER WITH EL34 + ECC83 + ECC82
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 11:27:15 pm »
2 Ohm transformer tap!? Nice :)
Mr. Mars, any idea what kind of power would this be able to push into a 2 Ohm load?
RANDBURG, the cradle, Earth Mk2

handsome

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Re: 90WATT VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER WITH EL34 + ECC83 + ECC82
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2011, 09:00:30 am »
It will put out roughly the same as the 8 and 4 ohm taps, 25W according to the schematic. transformer coupled valve amps dont shift their power output according to speaker load like transistor amps do.

VALVAGLO

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Re: 90WATT VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER WITH EL34 + ECC83 + ECC82
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2011, 10:38:38 am »
Mr Mars,
Where would one source an output transformer for the above amp?
"A man without tools is like a fish without a bicycle" Quote from Jim Gore

Family_Dog

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Re: 90WATT VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER WITH EL34 + ECC83 + ECC82
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2011, 11:03:21 am »
He winds his own!


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Ampdog

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Re: 90WATT VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER WITH EL34 + ECC83 + ECC82
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2011, 05:05:42 am »
Laylow,

Again not leaving you with an exact option, but start by finding a suitable output transformer for at least 2 x KT88, possibly 4 x 6L6GC (my choice). The rest of a circuit could follow, the requirement is general. A power transformer could be wound by any competent transformer winder. The price would be around R1000 for either, plus perhaps also a power choke at this level of sophistication. Although they are cheaper abroad, importing would be more expensive. My own circuit offer would be for something inputting with pentode EF86 followed by an ECC88 Schmitt phase inverter.  I will try post my standard diagram. Suggestion:I would place anything with ECC83s second-best for a power amplifier. Explanation could follow.

There is also a 'step' consideration here: Up to 70W could be reliably achieved with 2 x KT88. Going above that I would advise 4 power tubes as in your original circuit (but not that circuit as said). The cost then goes up more than the loudness does.

Karel Mars can advise whether he has something this big on his list. For myself you may have noticed that I am busy with a quite sophisticated 100 + 100W stereo valve amplifier; relevant here is that I will also be making my own transformers within say a month because of disappointing commercial experiences. To this end a friend is designing a sophisticated winding device using standard milling machine programmed technology. Should this be a solution you are welcome to contact again, say February, if you have not found an alternative option.
'Miracles' are not contrary to Nature - they are only contrary to our understanding of Nature