Tilting Speakers

[KlyvQ]

Just a question to those who have tried this...
Yes - I know speaker positioning is extremely important, get it right (plus all the other linked factors) and you'l enjoy music for many hours.

So,
Has anyone ever tilted their speakers - be it sideways (left or right), or backwards/forward - before?
I know speakers like Xavian/Thiel/Audio Physic to name a few, design speakers which have a "backward" tilt - for a lack of a better word, where the driver fires at a 30 degree angle or so...

So if a speaker is designed to to have a horizontal stance - so to speak, is it wise to try tilting them?
Yes - one needs to try this out, see if it works, but i thought i should put it out there, and hear from the more guys who know more about this?
Guys on the DIY forum, maybe?

Klyv...

[KenMasters]

If you think about it, many centre channels comes with rubber mats on which to tilt the centre and monopole surrounds are typically tilted. My rears are angled down and my centre upwards, no problems.

[Music_Lover]

I tilt my Eminent Technology LFT-8b backwards because I do most of my listening standing. Works well.

[Tom]

It would make most sense to have adjustable tilt speaker stands or have a tilt feature in a kinda standard speaker stand, albeit not very tall ones, one does not always want to be in the same position when listening to music so you can tilt them accordingly, Nope, did not smoke the good stuff, but how cool would it be to have motion sensor activated ear discovery speakers? This way the music could follow your ears, adjust automatically and you will always be in the "sweet spot"

[perfectionist]

I would say if you want to tilt your speakers then start by having the tweeters pointing to ear height or just above and work with them from there.

Use a simple laser pointer to get them into the first position and move the speakers incrementally until you find the sweet spot.

[KlyvQ]

... but how cool would it be to have motion sensor activated ear discovery speakers? This way the music could follow your ears, adjust automatically and you will always be in the "sweet spot"

hehehe - then when there's two guys in the room, ul always be off axis....   and feel like the drummer is sitting in the other room. Lol.
 - well i think i should have stated that i was talking about the main speakers (fronts - excl. centre   ).

Has any tried this?
Did imaging/the sound stage improve?

This also brings me to this...
From my understanding good stands/spiking is essential for ensuring that the speaker is stable and does not move about... - so by tilting the speaker, doesn't this compromise the stability? since it's at an angle?
if u tilt the speaker (which moves the tweeter, relatively to the mid bass), shouldn't u rather shift the speaker - ??

[perfectionist]

Me personally i would rather lift the speaker than tilt the speaker but both ways can have varying effects on room acoustics.

[Atjan]

It would make most sense to have adjustable tilt speaker stands or have a tilt feature in a kinda standard speaker stand, albeit not very tall ones, one does not always want to be in the same position when listening to music so you can tilt them accordingly, Nope, did not smoke the good stuff, but how cool would it be to have motion sensor activated ear discovery speakers? This way the music could follow your ears, adjust automatically and you will always be in the "sweet spot"

Sounds like headphones.

[Atjan]

I read somewhere that 7deg or so was optimum for tilting backwards. Some members have reported good results from doing this.

[Shonver]

I read somewhere that 7deg or so was optimum for tilting backwards. Some members have reported good results from doing this.

Experiment away, gents.

The reason why some manufacturers tilt their loudspeakers is to achieve acoustic alignment of the drivers. Typically, a mid/bass' acoustic centre lies a few centimeters (2~4cm) behind that of the tweeter. Easiest way to do this on a flat baffle is to tilt the speaker. Some loudspeakers have a stepped baffle, with the mid/bass forward of the tweeter. Little-known fact: you cannot have a true Linkwitz-Riley crossover if the acoustic centres are not aligned; this can be done physically, or by delaying the tweeter electrically. Best all-round solution is to do it physically. Some horn-loaded/waveguide-loaded tweeters have deeper acoustic centres, closer to that of the mid/bass, so relative acoustic offset is low or neglible, especially if the crossover point is low (wavelength will be longer).

When the layout is conventional (i.e., flat baffle, no physical alignment), phase coherence at the crossover point is achieved by skewing the crossover slopes, or at least one of them. It is also possible to include an electrical time delay of the tweeter, but this is seldom done, due to the extra cost of the network required.

Hope this helps.

[KlyvQ]

Experiment away, gents.

The reason why some manufacturers tilt their loudspeakers is to achieve acoustic alignment of the drivers. Typically, a mid/bass' acoustic centre lies a few centimeters (2~4cm) behind that of the tweeter. Easiest way to do this on a flat baffle is to tilt the speaker. Some loudspeakers have a stepped baffle, with the mid/bass forward of the tweeter. Little-known fact: you cannot have a true Linkwitz-Riley crossover if the acoustic centres are not aligned; this can be done physically, or by delaying the tweeter electrically. Best all-round solution is to do it physically. Some horn-loaded/waveguide-loaded tweeters have deeper acoustic centres, closer to that of the mid/bass, so relative acoustic offset is low or neglible, especially if the crossover point is low (wavelength will be longer).

When the layout is conventional (i.e., flat baffle, no physical alignment), phase coherence at the crossover point is achieved by skewing the crossover slopes, or at least one of them. It is also possible to include an electrical time delay of the tweeter, but this is seldom done, due to the extra cost of the network required.

Hope this helps.

Wow?
This is some serious good insight.

So would u say Tannoy, has done a great job in the design below (Dual Concentric)? (i have not listened to these speakers, but would imagine it should have some improvements in acoustic alignment)....? Where the tweeter is where the dust cap is normally....

[Shonver]

Wow?
This is some serious good insight.

Hehe. Thanks. It's more knowledge than insight; stuff you need to know to design a loudspeaker.

So would u say Tannoy, has done a great job in the design below (Dual Concentric)? (i have not listened to these speakers, but would imagine it should have some improvements in acoustic alignment)....? Where the tweeter is where the dust cap is normally....

Yes. A driver's acoustic centre is roughly where the voice coil is. The moving mid/bass cone on that speaker might be an issue to some, as the geometry of the waveguide is constantly changing. Apparently, it is less of an issue in practice than in theory.

[Atjan]

@Shonver:
So, in general, would most speakers thus have the tweeter and mid/woofers out of phase?

I have  noticed that sometimes the tweeter is connected + to - in xo's. Is this done to correct phase?

[Shonver]

@Shonver:
So, in general, would most speakers thus have the tweeter and mid/woofers out of phase?

I have  noticed that sometimes the tweeter is connected + to - in xo's. Is this done to correct phase?

It depends on the crossover slope. For even-order crossovers the drivers are in phase. It is done to get the drivers in phase, acoustically, through the crossover region. Reason: misalignment of acoustic centres and phase rotation caused by the crossover network cause a phase shift. This is the reason why JimGore (Ian) said in a recent DIY thread that it is impossible to design a proper crossover without taking measurments (acoustic, electrical).

[chipwelder]

Agree with everything Shonver said, some personal experience with speakers not designed for tilt...
I have done it, and while a little bit of a tilit, at a distance, can lift the soundstage, it also screws with the bass response of some speakers, not sure if it is because the footing is unsure, so you get "rocking" with the bass... maybe because you are screwing with floor-bounce - although that should only be with upper bass...