PRESENCE OR REAR SURROUND SPEAKERS?

[PAPPA3]

I'm toying with the idea of either adding front presence speakers or rear surround speakers to my 5.1 set-up.  Now I know the purists may say 5.1 is enough, but I like the idea of even more ambient effects.  I have a Yamaha RXV2600 which allows me to do either.  I'm wondering, has anybody moved from a 5.1 to adding either rear surrounds or front presence/height speakers.  If so, what improvements have you noticed?

I understand that I'll need to decide which is better for myself, but want a bit of input before I go through all the trouble.

Also see:
http://www.electronichouse.com/article/evaluating_yamahas_added_sound_presence/
http://forum.blu-ray.com/speakers/41243-yamaha-presence-speakers-explained.html

[leonpjhb]

Hi. I had the 2600 and added some presence speakers. I didn't notice a big enough improvement to warrant keeping them. Back then I wasn't really clued up and it could have been user error that caused the effect to be less valuable? I also used crappy speakers!

I returned to a 5.1 setup for three years and added rear surrounds only last week. Worth it? Oh yes in my case it was! The sound field feels more immersive and deeper. There is still clear seperation between the channels even though in my current room they are mounted closer to each other than is ideal. I am very happy to have done this and will do it again if I had the choice. Not to wax lyrical, but I feel that this has been the best upgrade I have done in some time...

I have heard that people do have mixed feelings regarding the relevance / validity of rear surrounds  and front presence speakers for that matter so try for yourself, but you might be pleasantly surprised.

[PAPPA3]

There is still clear seperation between the channels even though in my current room they are mounted closer to each other than is ideal.

How close are we talking here?  ... I also only have about 2m to play with between my surrounds and rear surrounds, if I go this route.  Are you using the same type of speakers for the rears and surrounds?  BTW which amp are you using now, if I may ask. 

It appears that front presence may benefit those using a projector since the soundstage in front is bigger - relative to a large projected screen.  Presence speakers also favour DSP music modes. 

Surround rears favour movies, it seems?

[xrapidx]

I'm also interested in adding two rear surrounds....so will be interested in the replies.

[Skeeter]

Haha! Only saw this topic now. Been having evil thoughts about ditching biamp on my SR708 to free up the extra channels. Then also add another sub for 7.2 surround sound! Wife will go nuts though, I think!!

What do you guys think about ditching the native Dolby D track in favour of Pro Logic IIx though, to utilise all the channels??

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[xrapidx]

I'm currently running 5.2... so an extra 2 can't hurt I'll just need pretty solid rear stands.

Its either that - or time to start doing my other lounge with a cheaper setup... TV speakers are getting a bit frustrating.

[Skeeter]

After my bedroom 5.1 surround project, I am happy with in ceiling speakers...so will use LC80's to timbre match to my Polk RTi's.

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[Viagara]

What do you guys think about ditching the native Dolby D track in favour of Pro Logic IIx though, to utilise all the channels??

To me this sounds like having two additional "nuts" implanted just for show - Look I have four, although only two work

If you want to use the additional channels, get a source that have information in those channels! I honestly think anyone who is serious about their sound will not use Pro Logic IIx just to employ additional channels. It borders on insisting to listen to a stereo source matrixed into 5 channels

[frikkie]

To me this sounds like having two additional "nuts" implanted just for show - Look I have four, although only two work

If you want to use the additional channels, get a source that have information in those channels! I honestly think anyone who is serious about their sound will not use Pro Logic IIx just to employ additional channels. It borders on insisting to listen to a stereo source matrixed into 5 channels

Agreed - DD5.1 is far, far superior to matrixed Pro-Logic... I do use Pro-Logic on 2 channel DD soundtracks - TV series rips, for instance, that got ripped with only 2 channels instead of the full five - and for that, PL works OK. It can't possibly compare to a proper DD track though.

[Skeeter]

Perspective is good... but what about blu-rays? Aren't there quite a lot of 7.1 movies now?

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[Viagara]

Perspective is good... but what about blu-rays? Aren't there quite a lot of 7.1 movies now?

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Probably, but stay away from matrixed processing if you can.

[KenMasters]

Perspective is good... but what about blu-rays? Aren't there quite a lot of 7.1 movies now?

Here's a list of the 7.1 discs currently available: http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php?OrderBy=Title&Audio=7.1

There aren't all that many relatively speaking.

[Skeeter]

Hmm, thanks for that. Wondering if it's more a case of upgradeitus I am suffering from. Already found out that my current sub was discontinued. Buying one more sub was fine...but buying two and then selling The old one to recoup? Eish. It's only 15 months old!!

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[Homer]

Agreed - DD5.1 is far, far superior to matrixed Pro-Logic... I do use Pro-Logic on 2 channel DD soundtracks - TV series rips, for instance, that got ripped with only 2 channels instead of the full five - and for that, PL works OK. It can't possibly compare to a proper DD track though.

Can't agree more.

[leonpjhb]

How close are we talking here?  ... I also only have about 2m to play with between my surrounds and rear surrounds, if I go this route. 
- Less than two meters. They are about a metre apart. Not because of choice as I mentioned, but it works well.

Are you using the same type of speakers for the rears and surrounds?
- I use B&W DS8's for surrounds and DS7's for rear surrounds. They are similar but not the same

BTW which amp are you using now, if I may ask. 
- Marantz MM8003 dedicated to the rear channels. Mark Levinsons for the fronts.

Surround rears favour movies, it seems?
- Yip, although I have found them interesting in music concerts too.