Author Topic: The Subjectivity of Wine  (Read 4273 times)

kay

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The Subjectivity of Wine
« on: November 08, 2007, 10:59:58 pm »
My girlfriend sent me this really cool link:

http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2007/11/the_subjectivity_of_wine.php?source=rss_feed

I'll leave you to make your own conclusions. Note: deliberately posting this in open talk so that there is no implied connection to audio topics like, say, speaker cables for example ;)

skinnyfat

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2007, 10:01:33 am »
Note: deliberately posting this in open talk so that there is no implied connection to audio topics like, say, speaker cables for example ;)

Yeah I'm sure ;D ;D ;D

Andrew

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2007, 12:59:54 pm »
 ;D Oh please post this in the AVSA forum...
Don't judge me for being quiet - no one plans a murder aloud.

kay

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2007, 08:11:51 am »
Here we go then :) I love my wine, maybe next time I should ask somebody to slap a lank expensive sticker on my regular drinking bottle without me knowing, and see what happens?

Andrew

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2007, 05:01:29 pm »
Come on people... Open minds... ;) What do you think about this? Are we influenced by price, thinking that the more insanely expensive the item, the better it must be...? Are we that gullible? What makes you believe a piece of equipment costing R10 000, for example, is going to be better than one costing R5000? Are we really listening with an open mind or do we allow price/marketing hype to dictate or colour our expectations...?
Don't judge me for being quiet - no one plans a murder aloud.

joel

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2007, 07:03:47 am »
Human beings are fallible.
We certainly do use more than one sense at a time to evaluate pretty much everything.

Foodies will know that presentation is everything. People will willing pay more for the same food that is well presented. You feast with the eyes first.

Price in my opinion, brings with it greater expectations of performance. This is why few are surprised when an expensive products performs well. It cost a lot so it should perform.

Unfortunately once the veneer of expectation is stripped away the real personality of the product (be it food or amplifier) will always come out, and not always in expected ways.

The trick is to not be so blinded by the veneer that this overrides the other senses.

skinnyfat

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2007, 08:10:51 am »

The trick is to not be so blinded by the veneer

Heh heh and most lower to middle level speakers dont use veneer, they use vinyl. :ducks: ;D ;D ...ok i'll keep quiet now :D

joel

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2007, 08:54:52 am »
Somehow, being so blinded by "the cheap artificial wood grained plastic covering" doesnt have quite the same resonance :) or meaning does it?

skinnyfat

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2007, 09:09:37 am »
Somehow, being so blinded by "the cheap artificial wood grained plastic covering" doesnt have quite the same resonance :) or meaning does it?

heh heh

DRNB

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2007, 11:11:32 am »
Somehow, being so blinded by "the cheap artificial wood grained plastic covering" doesnt have quite the same resonance :) or meaning does it?

Well I see it this way: If one can't put pride in the finishing, who knows what crappy components are used inside?
 ;D
"There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out." (Russian Proverb)

alanB

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2007, 11:07:46 am »
Quote
Come on people... Open minds...  What do you think about this? Are we influenced by price, thinking that the more insanely expensive the item, the better it must be...? Are we that gullible? What makes you believe a piece of equipment costing R10 000, for example, is going to be better than one costing R5000? Are we really listening with an open mind or do we allow price/marketing hype to dictate or colour our expectations...?

I personally think we South Africans are particulary susceptible to this kind of logic, more so than virtually any other nation I have had any experience with.  Why do you think our cars cost so much in comparison to other countries?  You dont honestly think its because input costs are 4 to 5 times higher here?  We are very small market compared to international markets (about 3 million people in total in SA have any real disposable income), but why then do we have an ever increasing number of manufacturers trying to enter our market?  If it was so expensive they shouldnt be so keen because margins will be low and competition tough.  Obviously its because you can make a lot of money selling cars (or any luxury item) to South Africans because we are willing to pay incredibly high prices.  We equate price to status and then justify that in terms of product performance, but in reality most people dont really care about the performance, only the price/status!

Try this experiment.  Arrive at a braai and tell your peers that you have just sold your expensive car and bought a small cheap car of about a third of the price.  You will get a very strange reaction (I know because I did this a while ago - I sold my M3 - long story), no matter how much you tell them how little fuel it uses or how much money you can now invest instead of spend.  People will simply not hear you, its as if you have made a grave social blunder and people are trying to overlook your ignorance or bad manners, nobody wants to mention it in public.  Now arrive at the same braai with a very expensive car, and trust me you wont have to bring the subject up, it'll be raised for you very quickly, people will be very keen to discuss it in detail with price being one of the key subjects!

The same goes for hifi.  If someone looks at your kit and politely asks about it, generally they are trying to make sense of the array of boxes on display in front of them.  If you tell them how great the sound is, how dynamic the bass is, how pure the details at the top end are, their eyes glaze over and they loose interest (if they arent that interested in sound), they tend to look at you as if you are a bit of a geek (which I acknowledge I am).  But tell them how much it costs and you immeadiately get their interest and even respect!  They immeadiatley want to know more, they will even tell others about it! 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 11:11:39 am by alanB »

joel

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2007, 11:39:03 am »
I agree with some of what your'e saying but not all of it.

South Africans (in general) love to appear as if they are wealthy and nothing shows this more than a fancy car. A car for want of a better explanation is conspicuous comsumption. The more you drive around the more you get seen and the better your ego feels.

Hi-Fi/Home Theatre is inconspicuous consumption. No one baring those allowed into your home knows about it (unless you have a party every night).

My friends dont get overly excited about my system. They know that it probably costs a lot more than they would spend, but they also know that sound has been a passion of mine forever. Hopefully when they listen they appreciate that the system sounds better than theirs, but it certainly doesnt bother me if they dont hear a difference. I dont see the value in having three putters either but some of my mates who play a lot of golf swear that the better the putter the better their game.

Getting back on track. Yes quite a few people would rather have Krell amp or Wilson speakers than an Valve Audio amp or Vivid speaker. if they perceive that the imported product is better and they can afford it then good for them, but I seriously doubt that having more street cred has much of a say over their preferece or not. Not amongst the general public anyway.



 


Shonver

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2007, 11:48:52 am »
I get a kick out of not following the sheep. Like driving an old Alfa Romeo (now audi station wagon),  moving over the boerewors curtain, only buying used AV equipment and listening to vinyl  ;D ;D ;D.


uuhh, no.... that's because I'm needy :-[ :'( :'( :'(
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 11:52:52 am by Shonver »
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alanB

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2007, 12:10:55 pm »
Joel I dont think I made my point clearly enough with regard to HiFi and costs.  

What I mean is that as South Africans, due to our silly price/status link (which is at its most extreme when it comes to cars and say homes), we tend to be more willing to pay higher prices than normal for goods, whether our friends are impressed by that or not.  

It is somehow discordant to most people that cheaper can be better.  People tend to sneer when you try and get them to buy the idea.  Very often you will hear the something like "youre only saying that because you cant afford..." (which is essentially the influence of the status theme).

A similar example is quite a stupid situation in which I was trying to advise a mate who recently bought a 4x4 and needed new tyres for overlanding trips.  All my advise fell on deaf ears and I couldnt understand why (because I had used the tyres extensively myself and was convinced they were about the best available for that application regardless of price).  The dealer salesmen were trying to get him to go for tyres at about R2200 a tyre (my suggested tyres were less than R1000 each).  I gave up when he muttered that he didnt want to go for "cheap rubbish".  All he heard when I advised him were that they were cheap and he stopped listening after that.  So he paid a lot more for tyres that arent as good IMO.  But he's very happy now so who am I to say anything more to him?


joel

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Re: The Subjectivity of Wine
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2007, 01:13:14 pm »
I know exactly what you mean.

I have been in the situation a number of times, and you're right the more expensive option is not always the better one.

We will never get away from this as long as there are salesmen punting one product over another with little regard for what the customer actually needs.